Reactivation - waiting now for several days but no answer

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einmot-flieger
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Reactivation - waiting now for several days but no answer

Post by einmot-flieger » 09 May 2007, 10:14

Hello,

last week I sent an email to support@sibwings.com where I described my current situation: my old PC stopped working about 2 months ago so I had to buy a new one. After I had installed everything on my new PC (including the Safir, of course) I got problems with my personal firewall (ZoneAlarm), which screwed up my whole system. So after two weeks, another reinstallation of my system had to be made. But it seems that I have no luck, short time later the system startet to get instable: blue screens, freezes and so on. I took my new PC back to the dealer where a technician investigatet the system. He said, he believes in a problem with the harddisk (bad clusters or so) and changed the harddisk. So guess what, I had to reinstall everything again. Maybe, if the instability is not solved, the next component will be changed and when it is the mainboard I am sure I will have to reinstall another time. But that is not yet a matter. The harddisk change was last week, now my system is set up again, except for the Safir.

Last week I sent the first mail, describing my problem and asking, how future reactivations in my case will be handled. No answer yet. Two days ago I, although I had no answer to my first mail yet, I sent the request code for reactivating the Safir to support@sibwings.com. Until today, no answer.

Although it is the third time I need to reactivate the Safir manually, I am not a software pirate. I have legally bought the Safir and I want to use the addon I paid for. And I don't want to buy another license for the Safir, only because I have to reinstall my system from time to time. It can't be true that I have to beg every time for reactivation, only because something on my system went wrong that causes a reinstallation! :evil:

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Alex
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Post by Alex » 09 May 2007, 13:01

Hello,

Sorry for this inconvenience, we might have missed your email with reactivation request. We have already sent you a new activation code, so check your email inbox.

As to your future reactivations, so far you need to request a new code by private message or by email. And, please, dont' think of this procedure as of begging, the reason we ask for request is because we process all the reactivation requests manually. Soon, we hope to process all reactivations automatically, and this will make your Safir experience better :wink:
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

einmot-flieger
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Post by einmot-flieger » 09 May 2007, 15:54

Ok, thx for the reply.

As of my expression "begging", I know other addon developpers that also use online activation / reactivation procedures and where a reactivation is exactly that: begging for having a legaly bought product running. If you are lucky, they will gracefully grant you another activation, if not, you will have to buy your addon again. If that is not so in your case (which I thougt first after I had no reaction to my mails), I will apologize for that expression and for thinking that way.

And I'm looking forward to the automated activation process, as it will surely make reinstalling much more easier. :smt023

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Sebastian
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Post by Sebastian » 10 May 2007, 05:17

Today, I read that the instant online reactivation can only be proceeded two times. For further reactivations one would have to email you and wait - perhaps for a whole week, as Mister Einmot-flieger above...

I really love your plane and the only reason that I sent credit card details to such a small publisher is the good image you have got in the fs community. To shorten it up: Reactivation per mail is something that is useless, disturbing, annoying and very, very un-userfriendly!

Nice to read that you are working on an automatic reactivation system, but let me tell you another concern of mine. I am really curious to see what happens with my purchase in - let`s say 5 or 8 years! You guys might all live on hawaii then, enjoying the millions you earned with your fs safir, Sibwings might be history then, and how will the reactivation progress be made from that day on? This should be just halve a joke, I really do see an upcoming problem with online-activations when all the little publishers close one day.

Your addon is the first and probably last addon that I bought with this silly online-activation thing. Other publishers learned to abandon such progresses (Aerosoft, Simmarket), why don`t you? Don`t tell me something about security and piracy. 20 euros are relative cheap for a fs addon - so I dared the adventure, but I don`t believe that the way other online-purchases from Aerosoft or Simmarket handle their online-sells are less save or being cracked by a serious number of software-pirates.

Let people pay, send them their personal key and let them reinstall their plane 10 times a day if they liked.
Greetings from the Ruhrgebiet, Germany

Sebastian

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snave
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Post by snave » 10 May 2007, 16:35

Disagree completely. You haven't bought ten activations, you've paid for two. You don't own this software, or the rights to continuously reinstall it. Why don't you just read the licence information you have signed as read and understood before you installed the aircraft, or even just peruse the older threads on the same topic? There's really no need to go over this again.

What you have bought, my friend, is a licence to install the airplane TWO times, and thereafter the right to further install it ONLY AFTER E-MAIL REACTIVATION. If that doesn't suit, why then did you complete the transaction? YOU should have declined the purchase in the first place. It was common knowledge for all consumers.

What does it say on this page?
http://sibwings.com/license.html

And please get REAL with this `five or eight years` from now rubbish. In five or eight years from now we will be on Flight Sim 12 or 14 and this aircraft in its FS9 guise will be a long-forgotten memory. A fond memory, nostalgic even, but still long gone... :-)

By then, if you want to continue to use it you would need a venerable copy of the `old` XP Operating System, as by then Vista will have been replaced and retro-compatibility only goes back one version, you will need a legacy copy of Flight Sim, probably from some historic software library - and frankly, you will need to remember where you left the saved copy of the SibWings Safir... :wink:

And if you think dvelopers get rich from flight sim development, you are out of your mind.

Bless your naivety! :roll:
Simon Evans

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Andrey
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Post by Andrey » 10 May 2007, 17:47

Hello guys!

Well... I'm totally understand your troubles, I know it's much discomfort all this activation\reactivation...

But try to see the situation from our side - we was working on project one year, one year of life, no other job - no other income at all (for me personally).

And it's absolutely clear that without good protection we'll lost much, year of life will cost not $$$$ but $$$... would you agree with this if you were in our boots ?

If you have any good ideas how to simplifies the activation procedure without making harm for protection - you are welcome!

Again if you are our legal customer, can prove it, you are welcome support with any problem - all troubles should be solved asap.

Andrey
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We are at facebook: facebook.com/sibwings

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Post by snave » 10 May 2007, 20:21

The problem is we live in an `instant gratification` society, where everything is someone elses fault, answers have to be immediate and solutions instantaneous. :roll:

Nowhere is this more apparent than in the flight sim world, where MOST support questions, let's face it, are the result of the rush to install and not Reading The Fine Manual or tucking into the Terms and Conditions to find out if you like what you see there, BEFORE you advance to purchase. :wink:

Just look at the blathering about SP1 of FSX. All over the net the impatience, intolerance and intransigence is getting in the way of real, proper forum business. People are complaining it's late, its not going to include [insert personal bugbear here], its got DX10 included, blah, blah, blah. Oh and just for a change there's even the conspiracy theorists suggesting the patch is being withheld while MS assure world domination, or something. :D

But at the end of the day, there's no substitute for being an intelligent, informed consumer, and this is not a dig at you Sebastian, you're just the latest person to raise the issue. But where is the personal responsiblity to ensure that the product they are leasing (yes, not buying) meets the need?. ALL of the information is right there in the public domain, it's not even tucked away in some far corner of the website, among the small print!

If you go to the purchase page, there it is, right at the top,
Buying this product indicates your tacit acceptance of the License terms.
complete with a hot link to the licence page where you can read all about YOUR obligations as a consumer. As this package is not offered for sale eslewhere, NO-ONE has the excuse of `missing` this important part of the terms of contract, only choosing to ignore it. And that, people, is nothing more than a personal responsibility issue.
Simon Evans

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Sebastian
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Post by Sebastian » 10 May 2007, 20:26

snave wrote:Disagree completely. You haven't bought ten activations, you've paid for two. What you have bought, my friend, is a licence to install the airplane TWO times, and thereafter the right to further install it ONLY AFTER E-MAIL REACTIVATION.
What I signed and understood is not necessarily what I accept as a polite and userfriendly way of service. Not to mention that the mail-reactivation doesn`t work really realiable, yet - as you can read above.

To me this kind of online-activation will never be a theme again. The safir is superb, no question, but there are limits for what I am willing to accept, writing mails to bring an addon to work is far beyond. Imagine you have 10 or 15 online-purchases and after each reinstallation of your PC you would need a secretary...
And please get REAL with this `five or eight years` from now rubbish. In five or eight years from now we will be on Flight Sim 12 or 14 and this aircraft in its FS9 guise will be a long-forgotten memory. A fond memory, nostalgic even, but still long gone... :-)
Absolutely nonsense! Everything you write. I still use a computer with Win98 for games like Grand Prix 4. And I surely will not change over to FSX or Vista within the next years. FS 9 will still serve for a long time and may be FS 11 or 12 will be a theme, but until then, what will happen with my online-purchases?

Or imagine MS would stop the work on future FS-versions, the addon-industry would die but I would definately continue to fly.

I only can repeat: We are talking about a 20 euro-product. No one would care about the last 5 beers he drunk so why about a toy?

Oh, how I miss the times of boxed-editions... you got what you bought and you can use them even if you had a computer that needs a new windows two times a day! And you don`t have to worry about what eventually will happen to this or that publisher.
And if you think dvelopers get rich from flight sim development, you are out of your mind.

Bless your naivety! :roll:
I already wrote that it was a joke so no need to discuss this stupid thing. You appear very priggish, so I am not interested in further discussions. This is my opinion, others may have their own.
Greetings from the Ruhrgebiet, Germany

Sebastian

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einmot-flieger
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Post by einmot-flieger » 10 May 2007, 21:15

snave wrote:What you have bought, my friend, is a licence to install the airplane TWO times, and thereafter the right to further install it ONLY AFTER E-MAIL REACTIVATION. If that doesn't suit, why then did you complete the transaction? YOU should have declined the purchase in the first place. It was common knowledge for all consumers.
Only one sentence: this passage of your license agreement breaks german law and therefore it is void for german customers. I don't need to take care about this passage and may reinstall the Safir on my PC as often as I want, that grants me our civil law here in germany!

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Post by snave » 10 May 2007, 23:56

einmot-flieger wrote:Only one sentence: this passage of your license agreement breaks german law and therefore it is void for german customers. I don't need to take care about this passage and may reinstall the Safir on my PC as often as I want, that grants me our civil law here in germany!
Of course you may. You just need to e-mail to reactivate the product registration. This was clarified very early on in the products life and, concidentally, is EXACTLY the way that MS product registration works - you know, the people that supply the Operating System that you are typing on... :roll:
Simon Evans

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Post by snave » 11 May 2007, 00:34

Sebastian,

You mention Grand Prix 4 on W98, but not Grand Prix 3, or 2 or 1. Like I said, you prove my reply by your own.

Let me ask you this: Do you still fly FS2000?
I doubt it. :wink:

The e-mail activation has nothing wrong with it, except the need to wait for a reply as you have to deal with a human who might not share YOUR requirements to reactivate at zero minutes notice at three in the morning... polite and userfriendly it IS. It is your response to it that might be regarded as impolite, as you KNEW all this before you made the purchase. You implicitly stated as such when you accepted the Terms and Conditions!

When I renewed mine, I got a very friendly reply within a couple of days... and what you can't know was that was even after a series of exchanges between myself and Alex both here in the forum and in private over my concerns about the registration process. Those concerns were, if I may say this, based on my considerably greater expertise and experience in the software market than you have shown you possess thus far, and it was only after those queries were satisfied that I made the initial purchase.

So it makes things interesting! Just like you I wasn't happy at first. But unlike you I did the research BEFORE committing to the product. Not only that, I made suggestions rather than just whining.

Times may vary for reactivation, but the reply is polite and friendly and indeed user-friendly as, unlike MS Vista re-activation (or the reactivation of FSX, for tha matter) you do not have to explain why you are reactivating to someone sitting on the banks of the Ganges, pretending to speak your language... :twisted:

Protection of intellectual property rights is JUST as important a right as the individual consumer entitlement. Without it, there would be no add-ons made for FS at all. MS wouldn't sell FS, and you wouldn't have an Operating System to run it on.

Anyway, we have widened the scope of the discussion beyond the topic at hand. If you didn't like the policy, you shouldn't have bought the product.
You did, therefore it is churlish to complain.

You chose NOT to wait for a boxed product... given your comments the only real question that we need to ask here is: Why not?

Enjoy the Safir!
Simon Evans

einmot-flieger
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Post by einmot-flieger » 11 May 2007, 11:28

Andrey wrote:If you have any good ideas how to simplifies the activation procedure without making harm for protection - you are welcome!
How about Flight1 Wrapper? Wideley accepted, secure, requires online verification for reinstallation but also allows the legally customer to reset his reactivation counter without making harm for protection.

I know, this will generate licensing costs for you to use the Flight1 Wrapper system, but I think it will also increase the acceptance of your product, so that in the end you may have more customers and more income that may compensate the licensing costs of the Flight1 system. And not to say customer satisfaction and less support, as reinstalling, purchasing, reactivation issues etc. will be handled by Flight1, not by you. You can really concentrate on technical problems with your product and will not have to bother purchasing or activation issues.

Oh, and I am not a member of Flight1 who wants to license the wrapper, I am just a flightsim enthusiast who is really satisfied with the wrapper system of Flight1. Normally, I do not buy any products that require an online activation, except those that use the F1 system. The Safir is the first and will be the last exception from my attitude, as I think it is an exceptional addon. Otherwise, I would not have bought it, just because of its activation system.

And a last thing: a halway good software pirate laughs about any form of protection system. The more difficult and secure a protection system is, the bigger is the challenge for software pirates to hack it. Those who really suffer from these systems are only the loyal, honestly customers. I, for myself, am a professional software developer, too. I earn my moneay with developing software. I am not amused if my software is stolen or something like that, so I also know your side. Just my opinion.

snave
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Post by snave » 11 May 2007, 16:03

Your idea is a good one - so good in fact, I already suggested it back in September or October of last year... :D

However, it wouldn't solve Sebastians dilemma: Flight 1 has a limited activation policy, exactly the same as here, with e-mail reactivation... :wink:
Simon Evans

einmot-flieger
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Post by einmot-flieger » 11 May 2007, 21:37

snave wrote:However, it wouldn't solve Sebastians dilemma: Flight 1 has a limited activation policy, exactly the same as here, with e-mail reactivation... :wink:
Wrong. It solves the problem of reactivation. It is true that the F1 system only allows a certain amount of reactivations. But you can reset your reactivation counter very comfortably on the F1 website. They offer apropriate service links to do that completeley automated. You enter your order number and some other details like the last four numbers of the credit card used for the purchase only the legal customar knows, and then you receive an email with a link you have to click (also completeley automated) and after that your reactivation counter is reset. Without any human support.

snave
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Post by snave » 11 May 2007, 22:21

einmot-flieger wrote:
snave wrote:However, it wouldn't solve Sebastians dilemma: Flight 1 has a limited activation policy, exactly the same as here, with e-mail reactivation... :wink:
Wrong. It solves the problem of reactivation. It is true that the F1 system only allows a certain amount of reactivations. But you can reset your reactivation counter very comfortably on the F1 website. They offer apropriate service links to do that completeley automated. You enter your order number and some other details like the last four numbers of the credit card used for the purchase only the legal customar knows, and then you receive an email with a link you have to click (also completeley automated) and after that your reactivation counter is reset. Without any human support.
Flight 1 need that because they are a publisher as well as developer and require a semi-automated system to support the extensive customer base, as well as service their developer-customers. I rather think such a system would be overkill for a new developer with only a single product in the range, and of course there is the Flight 1 fee to be considered. But I hope that SW-labs do go down this route in future. It's a stable and effective system, but of course relies on the customer having all that information to hand and informing Flight 1 of changes to personal information - if you don't then it's back to a Trouble Ticket - which is handled manually, via e-mail...
Simon Evans

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Alex
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Post by Alex » 11 May 2007, 23:00

Thank you Simon, Sebastian and Thorsten for your opinion to this issue.

It's our first product and our activation system has low usability for end users in contrast to our Safir :)

I hope next release will be more user friendly.

And maybe this issue was enough discussed ? :)
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

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