Switch windows for 2D panel?

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davidvoogd
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 17:02

Switch windows for 2D panel?

Post by davidvoogd » 19 Sep 2006, 06:37

Hello,

I'm really enjoying the Safir so far but I was wondering if I could make a small request. Even though the VC's are very well done, I overall much prefer 2D panels, no matter what the addon (even though the VC in this one is one of the best I've ever seen).

I know this may seem like a strange request to some, and again I think the VC is really good, but I still just prefer the 2D panel for ease of use. I hate panning around to hit switches and to look side to side, I much prefer pop up windows and the snap views you get in the 2D panel.

The 2D panels provided are quite good, however I was wondering if pop up windows containing the various switches (fuel tank selector, carb heat, electrical switches) and the radios could be added so you don't need to use the VC.


Thanks!

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Dieter
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Post by Dieter » 19 Sep 2006, 20:41

Hello 'Safir-Pilots'

From my point of view I totally agree with David's words.
This Safir is an excellent work, no doubt about it.
Nevertheless for the present time I also prefer an excellent 2Dpanel. Therefore some additional popup windows especially for switches and radio, ADF would be great!
I'm sure that most readers is this forum will not agree.
Ok, if you are the owner of a high performance computer equipment, you surely have a lot of fun flying with VC. But there a lot of people like me having older machines and then there will be some major problems which have great influence to the "fun factor", that means, the frame rates goes down flying VC. And we cannot run all this additional software like Active Camera or Track IR for same reasons.

And there will be lot of people keeping FS9 for a while because of lower performance computers.

Maybe theses facts could be a considerations for the next aircraft project.

Many happy landings!

Dieter

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bmd
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Location: CYHU

Post by bmd » 19 Sep 2006, 23:27

Hello,

The safir aircraft model is a great one with a lot of fine details and good looking textures. I enjoy ti fly with the Safur.

I totally agree with advidvoogd and Dieter. A 2D panel with the radios, switches, tank selector will be a great additon to the already good panel.

For me the 2D panel will have the advantage of improved readability and will require less time to change the setting of the radio for example. In the virtual cockpit, I have to make a xoom, in order to be able to read the radio frequency and input a new frequency. So I have to make a pause during the simulation. With a complete 2D panel I will not have these difficulties.

Once again I would like to thank all the team members for theirs great contributions to flight modelling for MS Flight simullator.

Have good virtual flight

Benoit

davidvoogd
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 17:02

Post by davidvoogd » 20 Sep 2006, 00:32

I don't find I have any problems with framerates in the VC, I've had them hit even 60-70 fps when unlocked, its more like Benoit says, I just find it much easier to tune radios etc. in the 2D.

davidvoogd
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 17:02

Post by davidvoogd » 21 Sep 2006, 22:48

Any response from the team?

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Alex
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Post by Alex » 21 Sep 2006, 23:10

Hi everybody,

As you can see we intentionally decided not to make 2d panel because our VC is FPS friendly and absolutely realistic. You talk about losing control while switching radio, nav, adf, etc. IRL you also may lose control for few seconds in such situations and you do not use additional panels, don't you? :wink:

At the moment we're busy fixing bugs and optimizing Safir for FSX, as well as preparing boxed version, so....after all this we'll try to make additional 2d panels, but cannot promise anything now 'cause developing 2d panels will take lots of time and efforts...
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

davidvoogd
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Joined: 16 Sep 2006, 17:02

Post by davidvoogd » 22 Sep 2006, 02:25

Thank you for the reply Alex. I've continued using the VC and I must admit the Safir VC is easier to use than most, but I still like the 2D option.

Will the VC gauges work in the 2D panel or would new gauges have to be made? If the VC guages will work in the 2D, given a bmp for the background I could create the 2D panel myself in FSPanel studio, with your permission of course.

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Alex
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Post by Alex » 22 Sep 2006, 08:57

davidvoogd wrote:Thank you for the reply Alex. I've continued using the VC and I must admit the Safir VC is easier to use than most, but I still like the 2D option.

Will the VC gauges work in the 2D panel or would new gauges have to be made? If the VC guages will work in the 2D, given a bmp for the background I could create the 2D panel myself in FSPanel studio, with your permission of course.
In the fact VC and 2D gauges are different things made with different technology. Bitmaps from VC can't be used in 2D gauges.
To create a 2D panel we need to make bitmaps from blank and then programm them with our local variables to connect them with VC. And repeat it for all our models (now 4). As you can imagine it's a big and complex work to make it Safir quality.
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

DNovet
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Post by DNovet » 22 Sep 2006, 11:22

Hello, fellow enthusiasts! :)

David,
I already pointed this topic out to the team during beta.
And I also had the same idea as you had (thinking of subwindow for each avionic and another one for the switches in the DBL)...
And I was in the same way enthusiastic, as you are...
But I became convinced pretty quick by the team, that the course of action is not as easy as you're thinking.

It is indeed necessary to create the gauges from scratch and either implement the logics you have in the VC or link them to the one in VC.

But nevertheless, I am happy to hear some voices pointing out the same topic as I had... ;)

Let's see, let the guys work at peace and continue giving them hints, what to improve where... :)

Cheers,

Daniel

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bmd
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Post by bmd » 22 Sep 2006, 18:30

Hello,

I have tried to use the virtual cockpit radio gauge on the 2D panel. But thhis gauge is not functional in 2D because the button and knob are part of the virtual cockpit.

Since the Safir Team have higher priority worrk to do, I have introduced in my Safir 91B a default Bendix Nav Com radio. I am aware that the B model have not Nav radio receiver, but it was the only default gauge that look a little bit similar to the Safir 91B radio.

Here is the panel.cfg for thie Safir 91B

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Code: Select all

// Panel Configuration file
// SAAB 91B Safir - 2d panel
// Copyright (c) SibWings laboratory.  All rights reserved.

[Window Titles]
Window00=Main Panel
Window01=GPS Panel
Window02=Radio Panel


[VIEWS]
VIEW_FORWARD_WINDOWS=MAIN_PANEL, GPS_PANEL, RADIO_PANEL, MINIPANEL

VIEW_FORWARD_ZOOM=1.0
VIEW_FORWARD_DIR=11.0, 0.0, 0.0



[Window00]
file=main.bmp
size_mm=1600,1200
position=7
visible=1
no_luminous=1
ident=MAIN_PANEL
gauge00=SAAB_Safir_2d!AirSpeed, 243,690,210,210
gauge01=SAAB_Safir_2d!Altimeter, 200,920,210,264
gauge02=SAAB_Safir_2d!Attitude, 494,627,265,265
gauge03=SAAB_Safir_2d!ldgRed, 1001,573,59,59
gauge04=SAAB_Safir_2d!DirectionalGyro, 559,996,130,51
gauge05=SAAB_Safir_2d!VSI, 834,930,210,210
gauge06=SAAB_Safir_2d!TandB, 790,692,210,210
gauge07=SAAB_Safir_2d!RPM, 1140,572,180,180
gauge08=SAAB_Safir_2d!ManifoldPres, 1162,774,170,170
gauge09=SAAB_Safir_2d!Oil, 1367,567,180,180
gauge10=SAAB_Safir_2d!FuelQ, 1378,771,170,170
gauge11=SAAB_Safir_2d!2dtovc, 1111,966,489,234
gauge12=SAAB_Safir_2d!compass, 1290,55,170,55
gauge13=SAAB_Safir_2d!CarbTemp, 1163,1015,135,135
gauge14=SAAB_Safir_2d!CylTemp, 1320,1015,135,135

[Window01]
size_mm=456,378
window_size=0.5
position=8
BACKGROUND_COLOR=0,0,0
VISIBLE=0
ident=GPS_PANEL
gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500,            0,0



[Window02]
size_mm=150,50
window_size=0.5
position=6
BACKGROUND_COLOR=2,2,2
VISIBLE=0
ident=RADIO_PANEL
//gauge00=SAAB_Safir!KY197VC,            0,0,150,50
gauge00=Bendix_King_Radio!Bendix-King Radio Nav-Comm 1,            0,0,150,50

[VCockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0 
visible=1
size_mm=1024, 1024
pixel_size=1024, 1024
texture=$only
gauge00=SAAB_Safir!KY197VC,			1,779,1022,245
gauge01=swsafir!SafirGauges,		0,0,1,1
gauge02=SAAB_Safir!ClockVC,			7,7,447,460
gauge03=SAAB_Safir!CarbTemp,		674,442,346,346
gauge04=SAAB_Safir!CylTemp,			674,100,346,346
gauge05=SAAB_Safir!LowFuelPressure,	331,655,120,120
gauge06=SAAB_Safir!ldgRed,			6,622,152,152
gauge07=SAAB_Safir!ldgGreen,		166,622,152,152
gauge08=SAAB_Safir!91B_mozg,		0,0,1,1
gauge09=SAAB_Safir!AltimeterVC,		31,489,181,110

[Default View]
X=0
Y=0
SIZE_X=8191
SIZE_Y=6143
------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this file may be useful for some of the Safir 91B virtual pilots

Have a good day

Benoit

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Alex
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Post by Alex » 22 Sep 2006, 23:35

Sorry guys that we cannot develop now functional 2d panels :|

But anyway, thank you for your efforts to make Safir better :smt023
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

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bmd
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Post by bmd » 23 Sep 2006, 00:46

Hello Alex,

This panel.cfg file cannot replace a 2D panel with a genine radio. I have found, with the Safir, that SW-lab have higher standards than this temporary patch. LOL

Happy virtual flight with the Saab Safir

Benoit

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