re-install

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sevenalvan

re-install

Post by sevenalvan » 10 Sep 2006, 04:20

Hello

I purchased the Safir last week and I am delighted with it however this weekend I have been reinstalling my files on my new PC (in preparation for FSX!) and I am unable to reinstall the Safir. When I run the install program and enter the codes it tells me this software has already been installed before. As I have only used it on my old PC for a week is there any way I can easily transfer it to my new set up?

thanks for your help in advance and can't wait for the next Sibwings release

Mark

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Post by SGTMAJOR » 10 Sep 2006, 05:33

Oh.... that's a good question. I'm waiting for FSX to come out first before I purchase my new computer (around the first of the year)..... so does that mean that this is only a 1 time shot and then you have to re-purchase?

OR..... can I save this to disk and just copy it over to the other computer?

Well... I guess if it's only a 1 time install, I'll just have to learn to live with FS9 for the rest of my life as I'm not giving up my Safir. (smile)

Best wishes,
Steve

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Post by Alex » 10 Sep 2006, 09:12

Hello guys,

Actually we're planning to make an update for FSX, so you will be able to downlod it fo free as soos as it's available.

As to the reactivations and reinstalling on a new PC, it is possible, but every request will be handled individually.
Alex Petrochenko
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Post by Alex » 10 Sep 2006, 09:18

As I have only used it on my old PC for a week is there any way I can easily transfer it to my new set up?
Mark, please, send me a private message with your full name and your product code or contact us: support@sibwings.com
Alex Petrochenko
SibWings developer

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Post by snave » 11 Sep 2006, 15:39

I'm doing the same and have the same problem - the `old` activation code is shown as not correct and when I copy/paste the request code via the authentication page I see the message:


Your copy was already activated. Your request will be handled manually.

You can send any questions to our e-mail: support@sibwings.com



Now, does this mean the request HAS been passed, or do I still need to do it manually, through the support e-mail, (which I have done by the way)?

I think you need to make that much more clear, as well as clarify that the Product code and the Activation Code e-mail that is sent to purchasers does NOT permit reinstall without outside verification.

Effectively the authorisation code is a one-shot deal, yes?
Simon Evans

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Post by Alex » 11 Sep 2006, 21:44

Purchased copy of Safir can be activated up to 2 times now.
Just install SAAB Safir add-on again.

If you need 3 or more activations then send us the request code via email (support@sibwings.com)
You need to write a good reason for such activation. 8)
Alex Petrochenko
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Post by snave » 12 Sep 2006, 00:43

I hope that was an attempt at humour. There was no mention of limitations on the number of activations in the specific contract I entered into with SibWings.
Here's the EULA, as contracted, in full, in case no-one reads these things before they click away (I always do; a lesson for us all):


SOFTWARE LICENSE AND COPYRIGHTS

Read the following terms carefully before installing, copying and/or using the product. Installing, copying or using the product indicates your tacit acceptance of these terms.

The following agreement is made between you (the user) and the SibWings Laboratory (SW-lab) concerning the software product SAAB 91 Safir, which is an add-on software for the Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004. This software is furnished “as is” and comes with a guarantee of efficiency if all the «System Requirements» are fulfilled. In case of lacking of any system components malfunctions or drawbacks can appear in the process of utilization the SAAB 91 Safir software, which is not the responsibility of the SW lab. You use this product at your own risk, the authors are not responsible neither for any loss or distortion of data, nor for any profit lost during the process of use or incorrect use of this software.

The SAAB 91 Safir software is the property of the SibWings laboratory, but having accepted this license agreement the user gets certain rights for using it. The SAAB 91 Safir software is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions.

Due to this license agreement SW-lab is engaged to give the rights of user of the SAAB 91 Safir software to everybody who:
- agrees with the conditions of this license agreement;
- has paid the amount stated for this product.

Given license agreement gives you the right to install and use only one copy of the SAAB 91 Safir software.

You are not entitled to:
- make any changes in the SAAB 91 Safir software;
- annex the SAAB 91 Safir software to any other software product;
- copy, distribute, resell, sublicense or rent the SAAB 91 Safir software.

The use of the SAAB 91 Safir software on different computers with the same logo is prohibited, as it is a violation of the present agreement.
SW-lab is not responsible for any kind of damage caused by the use of the SAAB 91 Safir software even if notified of any possibility of damage. In no way the liability of the SW-lab can be more than the amount of money paid for its product.
You are granted the rights of the user of the SAAB 91 Safir software on accepting this license agreement.

All mentioned Trademarks and Copyrights belong to their respective owners.




...As you can see, no mention of any limitation on activations. You grant me the licence to use on receipt of payment, and on my acceptance of these Terms and Conditions of Contract. Nothing more. I comply with those conditions even if I choose to install the product 50 times or more.

I don't wish to be tedious, but it truly is none of your business what reason I may have for reinstalling the software, nor does the EULA give you the right or cause to enquire. Your contracted role is to authorise that transaction, in accordance with the Ccontract Terms as presented, unless it is apparent that those Terms have been breached.

Gentlemen, I respect your intentions, and will help you in any way I can to rid this community of these pirates. But not to my own inconvenience...

Do try and remember from the moment you put this product on sale, you entered into a world of commerce.
A world away from freeware and `doing things for a laugh`.
A world where laws and contracts govern what may, or may not be done with your product.
In signing up to this EULA I did not agree to have to give you `good reason` why I may wish to reinstall the product, nor is there any indication in the contract that number limitations have been placed on the installation or frequency of re-installation.
So you cannot apply that restriction. Sorry, but it is that simple on legal grounds.

Frankly, it's also ludicrous on practical grounds to apply such terms just as many simmers, like me, are about to embark on the tedious and repetitive process of preparing computers for FSX.
I may need to reformat, I may need to move and/or reinstall Flight Simulator, as I have done this weekend, not that it is any business of yours...
I may need to delete the SibWings product temporarily while I do so, but I expect to be able to put it back when I want, where I want and HOWEVER MANY TIMES I WANT, without intereference from you or any other party. As long as I comply with your EULA, the rest of it is none of your concern. In fact, I have restored my FS installation to its previous location, and without removing the Safir, so it came as an unpleasant suriprse when I couldn't load it this morning. It is not mentioned in the manual or the EULA that the licence will be disrupted under those circumstances. Other developers who have such activations DO mention it epxressly in their literature, usually in the readme BEFORE the customer signs up for purchase. You would do well to follow their example.

I appreciate that this is perhaps not what you wanted to hear on top of the recent piracy issue, but inflicting contract changes on a party AFTER the event and without that party's approval renders the original contract null and void according to the letter of trading law in most civillised countries and is illegal, rendering you as bad as those you seek to prevent from accessing the product. I could seek a refund from you under these circumstances, which I do not wish to do.

Away from the commercial aspect, I offer this advice: Inconveniencing the decent, law abiding, money-paying customer is NOT the way you go about making a name for yourselves in this community, and I urge you to reconsider your re-activation policy and change the EULA so that future customers are not sucked into a product battle which forces them to have to justify their actions to a third party or show you in breach of contract.

Finally, I thank you for reactivating my Safir promptly, but ask you to clarify those terms and conditions, as I do NOT concur with the implied and revised terms as stated in your correspondence.
Simon Evans

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Post by alehead » 12 Sep 2006, 17:36

In total agreement Simon...

You couldn't have put it any better...

Sibwings needs to reconsider its approach to software activation, and perhaps provide a system similar to the Flight1 wrapper, which requires the validated and licensed purchaser to log in to a secure site to extend the softare activation limits. Again, no justification is necessary for this step.

In fact, Sibwings needs to consider its whole approach to customer relations.

I do, however, have a question. Is it correct that your EULA restricts me from making modifications to the Safir cockpit, for example, by adding a RealityXP GNS430?

And what am I to understand from the statement "annex the Saab 91 Safir software to any other software product"? It sounds like you are restricting me from installing it, since the install process automatically annexes it to FS2004! :lol: :lol: :lol:

This may sound absurd, but your wording is absurd at the very least... :o

Please explain also what is meant by " different computers with the same logo".

Looking forward to an answer...

Andrew

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Post by snave » 12 Sep 2006, 18:38

The EULA has all the hallmarks of having been drawn up as an afterthought by someone who didn't think it was important, when it is actually more important than the product itself, as it defines the relationship between the customer and the developer... Not only at its inception and through the purchase & installation process, but also as an ongoing entity in the nature of support, update - and customer relations!

Andrew, technically you probably would invalidate the software licence by making modifications. I read the document the same as you, although we both realise that is not its intention!
Interestingly by the same wording, so would making and providing a freeware repaint other than via this website, even though the developers provide the paintkit - and encourage customers to use it..!

Absurd and ludicrous wordings in legally binding contracts serve only to render those contracts null and void, never mind the confusion engendered. Be aware gentlemen that if you have no enforceable contract in law, there can be no `piracy`, as your intellectual property cannot have been taken inappropriately against the terms and conditions of that contract, as the contract doesn't actually exist.

Again, although it's not my responsibilty, I did advise you in that now-deleted thread to seek help from a publisher with experience in this market...
Simon Evans

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Post by Alex » 12 Sep 2006, 19:33

Guys, thank you for your advice.

We'll take into consideration your comments and will make necessary changes in our reactivation policy.

And while we're working on optimisation of reactivation procedure we want to remind you that you have the right for as many reactivations as you need, but at the moment all your requests after second reactivation will be handled manually. So, we ask you to be patient, we'll do our best to make it less inconvenient for you.

Hope for your understanding.
Alex Petrochenko
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snave
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Post by snave » 12 Sep 2006, 19:43

Thanks, that clears things up a little. I am sure if you get the business side of things sorted properly now, it will save you from a world of pain in years to come.

Too many developers have disappeared from this market, this hobby, because they didn't get the legal side of things right, only to find it came back to haunt them later on. You have chosen to make this a business, not a hobby, so making it run like one could be the best move you could make.
Simon Evans

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Post by Demolitionman » 13 Sep 2006, 20:02

I bought the Safir yesterday, and am delighted with it. It's only today that I got round to looking about a bit on the forums here, and then I saw this post...Oh dear!
I'm totally in agreement with Simon on this: Somehow I get a sense of dejavu reading this post when I think about my very bad experience with FSD: Back then I bought just about everything they made, and after a few installs they refused to give me my aircraft that I'd bought and paid for.
I still have nightmares about the vitriolic and insulting mails I recieved from a certain person on the team there, and I'm by no means the only one
They seemed to have got their just rewards, not much going on there lately.
I hope this will all be sorted out in a professional manner by Sibwings....

Best
Grahame

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Post by snave » 13 Sep 2006, 20:26

Oh Graham, you'll never know how close I got to mentioning FSD is my last post, because I was thinking them, too! :)

Egocentric to the point of thinking they have some divine right to install spyware on the users system, and I know who you are referring to when you dare to complain... And we're not talking the kind of complaints that have you wondering whether the questioner has even seen a plane, but carefully researched and repeatable problems that have threads disappearing and users excluded for daring to bring the unsolved problem back up.

They still think they banned me from their forums... :twisted:

As it is they're now no more than a marginalised fringe producer. And one where a moderator cannot afford to be far away anytime their name gets
mentioned in a forum topic, as it's sure to go downhill from there...
Simon Evans

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It's a pleasure. .

Post by pj_3 » 13 Sep 2006, 22:50

Xeo wrote:Guys, thank you for your advice.

We'll take into consideration your comments and will make necessary changes in our reactivation policy.

And while we're working on optimisation of reactivation procedure we want to remind you that you have the right for as many reactivations as you need, but at the moment all your requests after second reactivation will be handled manually. So, we ask you to be patient, we'll do our best to make it less inconvenient for you.

Hope for your understanding.
Ya'know Xeo- this is the kind of response that will make me buy your product. I've been simming since '86, am 61 years old and have a pretty hot system, home built cockpit, TrackIR4, with most of the "heavy-duty", real-world add-ons like MAAM-Sim's B25, Dreamfleet's 727, FlightDeck Companion, the great MegaScenery suite, FlyTampa, a number of Flight1 products, yada-yada, etc., - all of whom have successful businesses and great relationships with their respective customers. Those companies know it takes more than programming skill to achieve this success, and they treat client interaction with the highest priority, and - from your curteous, friendly and pro-active response to these guys - quoted here - you seem to be on the same track. You're now in my bookmarks; I'll look at the aircraft, and may donate some of my money for it in the near future!
Thanks, Regards,
Paul J

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Water-cooled i7-2600K@4.8gig, ASUS P8P67 B3 DeLuxe; EVGA GTX580; 8gig Corsair Vengeance C8@1600; Win 7-64; TH2G w/3x19" Viewsonic VA926; Homebuilt airliner-style yoke and pedals; 6-pack throttle quadrant; TrackIR5 & EZCA; No blurries.[/font][/size]

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Post by Alex » 13 Sep 2006, 22:59

Welcome here, pj!

We hope you'll add our product to your collection and you won't be disappointed with it :wink:
Alex Petrochenko
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Post by fsafranek » 14 Sep 2006, 20:56

I'm glad I saw this thread. I was just about to send an email to Support to have my original installation deactivated so I could move it to a new PC. I suspected what I needed to send but now know. So thanks. But then I read further...

Irregardless of what the EULA says, if you bothered to read the purchase page it clearly stated the single PC limitation and alluded to the authentication procedure. Aside from the temporary inconvenience of the single PC limitation I thought the authentication method was pretty slick -- well thought out and implimented.
* You MUST have an Internet connection to download and request activation code for SAAB 91 Safir, but note, that installation CAN be done on a PC without Internet connection
* You have the right to install SAAB 91 Safir ONLY on one PC
* You are not entitled to copy, distribute, resell, sublicense or rent the SAAB 91 Safir add-on
Since you have been informed prior to clicking the [OK] button on the purchase page the limitations do not have to be repeated in the EULA (an EULA isn't even necessary for that matter but it is common practice to include one it the install procedure can require its acceptance). A nice thing to do but not necessary. Trying to verbally strong arm this new company by saying there are no limitations because it isn't mentioned in the EULA is just wrong. You essentially agreed to everything you did and did not read when you clicked the purchase button. Someone mentioned that companies come and go -- this sort of negative feedback is often a cause.
Frank Safranek - Alphasim Paint Crew
Mirage Aircraft for Flight Simulator
http://www.mirage4fs.com/

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New aircraft in the stable. . .

Post by pj_3 » 15 Sep 2006, 05:23

Well - I bought it! I just had a few circuits at Seatle Tacoma, with some mild aeros - a spin and a t 'n' g at Renton. Alex - she is absolutely beautiful! I have to say this is one of the top light GA aircraft now available. It's right up there with the RealAir Spit and the T37 Tweet. Thank you (and Haken Olsen) SO much for twisting my arm!javascript:emoticon(':D')
Very Happy

Regards,
Paul J

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Post by snave » 15 Sep 2006, 14:38

fsafranek wrote:I'm glad I saw this thread. I was just about to send an email to Support to have my original installation deactivated so I could move it to a new PC. I suspected what I needed to send but now know. So thanks. But then I read further...

Irregardless of what the EULA says, if you bothered to read the purchase page it clearly stated the single PC limitation and alluded to the authentication procedure. Aside from the temporary inconvenience of the single PC limitation I thought the authentication method was pretty slick -- well thought out and implimented.
* You MUST have an Internet connection to download and request activation code for SAAB 91 Safir, but note, that installation CAN be done on a PC without Internet connection
* You have the right to install SAAB 91 Safir ONLY on one PC
* You are not entitled to copy, distribute, resell, sublicense or rent the SAAB 91 Safir add-on
Since you have been informed prior to clicking the [OK] button on the purchase page the limitations do not have to be repeated in the EULA (an EULA isn't even necessary for that matter but it is common practice to include one it the install procedure can require its acceptance). A nice thing to do but not necessary. Trying to verbally strong arm this new company by saying there are no limitations because it isn't mentioned in the EULA is just wrong. You essentially agreed to everything you did and did not read when you clicked the purchase button. Someone mentioned that companies come and go -- this sort of negative feedback is often a cause.
Without wishing to discuss contract terms with you, a single PC is defined as: a Personal Computer, one of. NOT one installation, only. You are the one who really needs to learn to understand what you are agreeing to before you sign up. Perhaps English isn't your first lnaguage? Contract terms and definitions may not be your strong suit either, but that's not what galls me.

I am glad that you feel that my post was negative, because it gives me an opportunity to explain to you that while you are busy misunderstanding something which is a problem with your interpretation, I am actually helping the team by reviewing the EULA and other literature for them.

So Frank, tell us what have YOU done to help, other than buy the aircraft?
Simon Evans

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Post by 6297J » 15 Sep 2006, 19:32

That took much longer than I was expecting :lol:

snave
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Post by snave » 15 Sep 2006, 21:39

6297J wrote:That took much longer than I was expecting :lol:
We are under threat of a power cut that will last for several hours, possibly a day while they replace a mains cable, so I have had the computer off for much of the last couple of days while Southern Electric get their finger out, and the pipework in...

...normal service will be resumed shortly... :wink:
Simon Evans

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