Air dynamic flight

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Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 30 Oct 2014, 15:55

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 01 Nov 2014, 14:48

I'd be very careful comparing 'many videos' - you have NO idea of the CG, the loadout, the wind speed or direction, and in most cases even the flap setting being used.
AOA is a function of all these things, and more.

The AN-2 can do, for example, something that is very rare in the aviation community - a tailwheel takeoff. IF SETUP CORRECTLY.

Download the Flying Guide .pdf and follow that and frankly, stop messing about with things you don't understand. There are a handful of FDE professionals you don't mess with - Alex Metzger is top of the list.

You cannot 'improve' something you are basing on incomplete information.
Simon Evans

sieggie
Posts: 52
Joined: 28 Jun 2010, 17:39

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by sieggie » 01 Nov 2014, 23:54

If you hold forward stick, you can get the tail to fly before the plane comes off the ground. But as Snave says, everything depends on loadout.

Dave

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 02 Nov 2014, 07:24

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 03 Nov 2014, 01:39

Rubbish. The FS9 .air file uses sections that aren't even active under FSX. I repeat, don't mess with what you don't understand.

How many hours do you have in the real thing again?
Simon Evans

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 03 Nov 2014, 04:44

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 03 Nov 2014, 04:53

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:54, edited 1 time in total.

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 03 Nov 2014, 14:51

The mere fact you quote this tells us you aren't fit to interpret 'correct' flight modelling. You don't even understand that what you have highlighted shows the error.

By all means carry on making your own foolish and ill-conceived changes - that's the beauty of FS after all - but please spare us from the details.

It is always better to stay silent and thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all element of doubt.
Simon Evans

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 10 Nov 2014, 15:48

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 14 Nov 2014, 20:18

Finally got round to loading the AN-2 into P3Dv2 and confirmed that everything that hanimichal is whining about is total garbage.

The aircraft takes off from a tailwheel if desired, but equally can be flown off a lifted tailwheel and the mains almost as soon as the tail lofts. Change the loadout and reduce the fuel load and she flies backwards in a 35-knot headwind. Use of flaps does make for a significant difference in attitude and trim and enables one to choose the tailwheel t/o more readily, but trim needs to be spot-on or she wobbles into the air a bit early. I note with some satisfaction that this is EXACTLY as described in the Flying Guide 1.1

For P3D2 users I also note that the temp changes to CHT seem slower and more predictable than in FSX, but as I'd dumped FSX a while ago that may just be poor memory on my part.

A small change I have made to the engine management from a user standpoint is to treat the throttle and prop lever more like a paired unit - I use a Thrustmaster Warthog which I didn't have when I was using the aircraft in FSX and although the two levers are not clamped, it seems natural to closely match the position of Throttle and Prop by drawing back on both at the same time, but slowly. The ergos of the actual aircraft seem to indicate that they would normally be kept in close affinity anyway, especially for cruise. The only time they are a world apart is taxiing. This also seems to ease the engine management (or specifically temperature management) issues.

So once again Hani is wasting his and our time and should learn to leave well alone that which he does not understand.
Simon Evans

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 18 Nov 2014, 03:40

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Last edited by Hanimichal on 20 Nov 2014, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 18 Nov 2014, 19:26

What I am doing is ruling your contribution to the assessment as garbage. You wouldn't know a 'good' flight model from a hole on the ground, and everything you've posted in this forum confirms this.

I ask you how much stick time you had a in a real AN-2 and you told me you are a simmer. You therefore have no right to an opinion, especially when you have presented no 'evidence' - real or otherwise - to justify your mistaken and dishevelled opinion, which is now revealed to be fantasy. You only reveal how little you know, not how much. And choosing to express your lack of knowledge is your choice, not mine, so don't ask me to stay away.

Perhaps you should be the one to stay away from the forum, as you won't get any latitude by persisting in your deviant meanderings. By all means modify whatever you want to satisfy your own urges, but immediately you seek to impose those drivellous notions on the rest of us you will be challenged. You have no idea what you are talking about. So don't.

I will be willing to listen to you when you have at least 50 hours PIC in an Antonov AN-2, confirm you actually do have a real pilots license, and can bring to the table a representative sample of flight models that YOU have developed for the simulation.

In among that selection I expect there will be an aircraft or two that I or other forum members have actually flown, and then there will be a basis for comparison.

Shut up, learn more.
Simon Evans

alpha charlie
Posts: 8
Joined: 16 Jun 2013, 13:29
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by alpha charlie » 18 Nov 2014, 23:30

If anyone's still curious, here's the English translation of flight manual made by Polish manufacturer of An-2. Might contain some insight on aircraft handling. Russian AFM clearly states that "corn duster" CAN do three-point takeoffs. I saw that with my own eyes hundreds times at my local skydiving club.
http://www.avsimrus.com/f/dokumentaciya ... 32902.html

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 19 Nov 2014, 14:40

Thanks for that Alpha, added to the pool of knowledge.
Also try:
http://www.seqair.com/Other/UnFalco/UnFalco.html
How do you make a takeoff in an An-2? You don't. The airplane does. "The [Cessna O-1] Bird Dog is the only other airplane I've ever flown that takes off three-point," Charley Houck admits. With 15 degrees of flap, by the time you have advanced the power and monitored it sufficiently to set 950mm of manifold pressure-1,030 is the maximum allowable-the thing is off the ground like an Acapulco parasailer showing off to the girls on the beach. The yoke never moves.
Funnily enough, Alex's flight model does exactly that...
Simon Evans

Hanimichal
Posts: 7
Joined: 12 Sep 2013, 02:54

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by Hanimichal » 20 Nov 2014, 20:57

From where this kind of people come!?
Where are the moderator/administrator of this site!?
I don't want part of this any more, and deleting all my posts ...

snave
Posts: 220
Joined: 03 Sep 2006, 01:21
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Air dynamic flight

Post by snave » 21 Nov 2014, 03:42

I see. So you don't' have a pilots licence; no flying time in a real AN-2; no evidence to back up your theorising; don't like being corrected by other members of the forum when you're patently wrong; and now write to tell us you don't want to be part of the forum when you could have just disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again? You feel the need to tell us this, why?

Ironically, all you're leaving behind is the proof that whatever bullcrap you were pontificating on in the first place was about as useful as a chocolate teapot. And that the flight model is incredibly accurate - far more so than the critique, anyway. Which is what we were all trying to tell you.

Enjoy your AN-2. Hopefully you've learned something :roll:
Simon Evans

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