BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

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Crusader
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BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Crusader » 06 Jul 2010, 23:18

Just finished a very interesting book , "My Year in Viet Nam" by John F. Welch. It's about the O-1 Bird Dog and the pilot (Author) , a retired Air Force Col . Don't know if it has been covered here before or not . If it has , sorry for the repetition . Col. Welch was an Air Liaison Officer/Forward Air Contoller with the 22nd ARVN , July 1966 to July 1967 . It happened to be the exact same time period I was there only I was with a USMC sqd. VMFA(AW)-235 (F8 Crusaders) . I happened to pick mine up at the National Museum of the Air Force a couple of years ago($23) . I really enjoy flying the L-19/O-1 in FSX and I too am looking forward to the upcoming patch even though I've already logged quite a few hours in the unpatched version .

Rich

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Ron Attwood
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Ron Attwood » 06 Jul 2010, 23:22

And what is your opinion of the unpatched version Rich?
Computer: Black box with a bunch of electrical looking stuff inside. Lots of fans and blue lights and it sits there humming away gently and lets me play games on it.

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pj_3
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by pj_3 » 07 Jul 2010, 04:30

Troll!! :smt005
Paul J

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Crusader
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Crusader » 07 Jul 2010, 06:05

Ron Attwood wrote:And what is your opinion of the unpatched version Rich?
Some things definately need fixed . I know that I have experienced screen locking up and on occassion being thrown to the desktop when I save a flight with the Bird Dog then make it my default flight . I believe it has been mentioned here before . Landing in a moderate crosswind with this aircraft can be a real bear but I'm sure the real AC is no picnic either although I certainly am a rookie with the flight dynamics of the O-1 . I have also had difficulty tuning the radio/nav equipment . The panel IMO is the best I've ever seen . It's in a class by itself . I'm sure when the experts go over the problems that have been mentioned here and by others , the end result(patch) will make this bird an outstanding addition to FSX .

Rich

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Ron Attwood
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Ron Attwood » 07 Jul 2010, 12:54

pj_3 wrote:Troll!! :smt005
Sussed! :(
Computer: Black box with a bunch of electrical looking stuff inside. Lots of fans and blue lights and it sits there humming away gently and lets me play games on it.

Crusader
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Crusader » 07 Jul 2010, 15:52

Ron Attwood wrote:
pj_3 wrote:Troll!! :smt005
Sussed! :(

Thank you both for your one word innuendos . Maybe next time you can use simplier words this southestern Ohio hillbilly can understand . Now , let me ask a simple question . Isn't a flightsim forum a place where one can go to get instructional info , general info and express one's own opinion about the product to make it even better ? I happen to like the Bird Dog and yes it isn't perfect but I think I'll just read other "Expert" and "Perfection" posts and try to extract as much as I can without getting bashed in the process .
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In my humble opinion , an excellent product . :|

Rich

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pj_3
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by pj_3 » 07 Jul 2010, 20:39

Hey, Rich; Ron and I are good buddies and we like to joke about a bit on the forum. My "bash" was at him - not yourself - but apologies nevertheless :wink: . (and no-one I know who flew any combat duty was a "hillbilly"!!)

We both have good experience with the old BD, and are now involved in the testing of same, so it's good to get others input - and especially r/w input - on it's flight characteristics. Andrey just posted what we hope is the final version, with the fixes all in place, hopefully no other defects and such that we can all sit back and enjoy what is one of the most life-like aircraft that I've seen in the sim world. If that is the case it will likely be released this coming weekend (fingers crossed!).
"The panel IMO is the best I've ever seen . It's in a class by itself ." Fully agree. :)
Paul J

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Water-cooled i7-2600K@4.8gig, ASUS P8P67 B3 DeLuxe; EVGA GTX580; 8gig Corsair Vengeance C8@1600; Win 7-64; TH2G w/3x19" Viewsonic VA926; Homebuilt airliner-style yoke and pedals; 6-pack throttle quadrant; TrackIR5 & EZCA; No blurries.[/font][/size]

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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Blackace16 » 07 Jul 2010, 22:15

Hi Rich,

Don't be too hard on Paul and Ron!! They know there are serious flight dynamic problems with the product and have been waiting patiently for several weeks now for the FDX and other corrections. Despite its shortcomings, one can fly the bird -- but it is much more difficult than the real world O-1. My input of 6 June "O-1\L-19 Flight Dynamics Modification Update" gives some hint of improvements. Stalling characteristics have been vastly improved -- and that alone translates into a more realistic landing behavior. As you are aware, during the evacuation of Saigon, birddogs piloted by S.Vietnamese pilots successfully landed on aircraft carriers in the bay (no tail hook required!). A good test for you is to try to do the same with your purchased program. Here is a little mission for you to try: In the San Diego bay, berthed at Coronado Island is a Nimitz class carrier. Your mission is to execute a full stop landing (no wind) on the deck. Approach is with 60 degrees of flaps, power off - 70-75 mph indicated. You want to begin flare about 20 feet above the deck and execute a stalling three
point landing (keep back pressure on the stick!). This is relatively easy to accomplish with the new FDX. If you can do it with the original airfile -- your a candidate for master aviator wings!! :smt026 My experience with the original was that the AC kept sinking when a flare was initiated (crash!).

I see you have read John Welch's book--a good read and good insight into the challenges facing FACs in Vietnam. If you enjoyed that book, you might also enjoy a book recently published about the 220th RAC "Catkillers" (see attch pics). It is called "One Hundred Feet Over Hell" and describes air action during 1968-69 in northern I Corps and the DMZ. I flew with the unit for several months and I can tell you the Catkillers were a great group of guys. I was unable to attend, but we just had a very successful reunion in Philadelphia. If you would like to know more about the 220th, Google "catkillers" and it will give the unit's web site -- lots of good stuff. Also, there is reference to a movie (13 minutes it duration) which is 8mm film I took while with the unit. The last couple minutes was taken in our O'club during Christmas of 69" and gives some hint of our camaraderie. As an aside, prior to joining the 220th, I was with the 21st RAC "Blackaces" with an O-1 platoon in Da Nang. Much of our mission load was in direct support of the 1st Marine Division. When units were in contact, we would routinely get support from Marine attack AC based in Da Nang or Chu Lai, and naval AC operating off carriers. On more than one occasion I can remember controlling Crusaders. Could be some were from your old unit. That was a long time ago and my memory isn't what it used to be!
Pat
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Ron Attwood
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Ron Attwood » 07 Jul 2010, 22:28

That's one of the problems with the internet, you can't see the faces. Actually my question to you was a serious one because, unless I misread your post, you've actually flown one of these things.(re-reading it, it seems I got that wrong. :( ) As for Paul, he's an Englishman that deserted us and went to Canada, consequently he has no sense of humour. :grin:
Just to clear things up.
Troll: Someone who makes provocative posts (I was alluding to the fact that the patch is a long time coming) :roll:
Sussed: Having been discovered/found out. 8)
Welcome Rich. :smt006


Hey! I qualify for Master Aviator wings! :smt059
Computer: Black box with a bunch of electrical looking stuff inside. Lots of fans and blue lights and it sits there humming away gently and lets me play games on it.

Crusader
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"(Ron,Paul, Pat)

Post by Crusader » 08 Jul 2010, 01:17

Hay Paul , Ron and Pat . Just overlook any comments form the old man here(63 in a few months ) . My wife says I've been an old man for a long time and now am turning into a grumpy old man :) . Let me say from the onset I did not fly with VMFA(AW)-235 in Danang . I was an Aviation Ordnanceman and loaded bombs , rockets , 20mm canons , mixed a lillte napalm cocktails for Charlie and a few CBU's. I did bum a ride on a CH-47(My hometown buddy was the crew chief) and I also volunteered on a C-123 on a night flare drop mission so you can say this one actually was a combat flight I guess . :) I know one thing , it scared the hell out of me but I loved every minute of it . Since then (1967) I have logged a few hours in a 172 , 182 , Cherekee 180 . The thrill of of a lifetime was a few years ago an older gentleman from Huntington , WVa who owned a beautifully restored Stearman(N2S ?) in Navy colors let me have some brief stick time with the Stearman . He later did a few rolls for me . You just havn't lived gentlemen until you have done a few rolls in an open cockpit AC . USMC 65-69 then a long break . Retired from The Air Force Reserves after a combined total of around 22 years . I was very blessed to have flown in almost every Transport AC the Air force had . (C-141 , C-130 , KC-135 , KC-10 , C-5's) Next year my old unit 440th Air Mobility out of Wright Patterson are going to acquire I believe about a half a dozen C-17's . This one I havn't been in yet but might half to take a "space available" flight somewhere since that is one of the benefits of retirement . Got a question for you Pat ; What did the Army use the DH-2 Beavers for in Viet Nam ? I'm am going to try an scan a picture I have . One of the benefits of being at a large base like Danang is you are able to see quite a few different AC .

Thanks Paul and Ron for all the hard work on the flight dynamics and keep the stories coming Pat . They are very interesting and informative . I will have to look for "A Hundred Feet Over Hell"
Lets hope this weekend might bring us all a surprise . Looking forward to it .

Rich
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Ron Attwood
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Ron Attwood » 08 Jul 2010, 01:53

63? 63? You're but a lad! I'm 69 in July (I've always wanted 69 and now my time has come! :wink: ) As for helping with the flight dynamics...My only contribution has been posting smart arsed posts to try and gee-up Andrey. :twisted: Not with too much success I might add. :grin:
Computer: Black box with a bunch of electrical looking stuff inside. Lots of fans and blue lights and it sits there humming away gently and lets me play games on it.

Blackace16
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Re: BOOK ; 'MY year in Viet Nam"

Post by Blackace16 » 08 Jul 2010, 06:09

Rich,

DH-2 beavers (military designation U-6) were used totally in a light transportation support role in Vietnam. They could be easily configured to carry supplies or passengers (up to 8). Because of their lift capability and ability to operate out of unimproved air strips, and flight duration, they were a popular mode of air travel over longer distances. With the improvement in helicopter speed, duration and lift capability (ie. Blackhawck UH-60), the U.S. Army dropped the U-6 from the aircraft inverntory. Because of the rugged nature of the AC, many of the birds formally used by the U.S. Army and Air Force are still being flown in remote areas. I had several hundered hours flight time in the AC and really loved it. Anyone who has flown it has a special attachment to this venerable bird.

Pat

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