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Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 06 Oct 2010, 10:36
by Dieter
When airborne the rudder effectiveness is strange, better say wrong, i.e.,
pressing the right rudder pedal, the aircraft turns left and vice versa.
I have this problem with all Safir X models.
Oh, it's not with the Bird Dog.

Greetings
Dieter

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 08 Oct 2010, 00:13
by snave
Rudder overbalance, maybe..? Not a lot of fin area on this bird and a relatively short moment arm. I find I don't need much foot travel to keep the ball centred

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 13 Oct 2010, 19:46
by Dieter
I add a short video with the permission of the author, who has the same problems with the rudder effectiveness.
And we are not the only ones!
The demonstration clearly shows the false rotary motion/turn direction of the airplane under control of the rudder.

Download or watch here:
http://www.wexel.net/Saab_91_SafierX/Sa ... _HD720.wmv

I kindly ask other Safir users to take the time for a short look, thank you.

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 14 Oct 2010, 02:48
by snave
No testing methodology or system specs so how are we supposed to view this as a `finding`? Could be that the controller being used for rudder is rubbish, there's an awful crosswind, or there are other factors at play, such as rudder overbalancing, which of course cannot be felt in FS. Or it could be poor pilotage, as there's very little harmonisation of controls being shown in the video which look like a sloppy flyer rather than a flight model fault, as such.

I'm sure that's not the intention, but with such sloppy presentation and lack of systematic methodology, how is anyone to repeat the experiment to verify it or deny it? We don't even know what version of FSX this is being flown on...

Instead of pretty pictures please define a repeatable testing methodology that we can all try, and define both the Operating System specs AND more importantly, the controllers in use so we can at least see if a pattern emerges.

The best solution involves a default FS, using a default weather scenario, using a .flt that can be exported to others to try.

That said, it would be unusual for a powered airplane to swing right on application of left rudder.

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 14 Oct 2010, 12:20
by CBris
I am afraid I must support Dieter fully in his claim here. The Safir's rudder function is, simply put, wrong.

But I have reported this often enough in beta.

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 14 Oct 2010, 15:21
by Ron Attwood
CBris wrote:I am afraid I must support Dieter fully in his claim here. The Safir's rudder function is, simply put, wrong.

But I have reported this often enough in beta.
And they took no notice? How strange. Isn't that what beta testers are for, ironing out the wrinkles? :-k

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 15 Oct 2010, 22:52
by Ron Attwood
CBris wrote:I am afraid I must support Dieter fully in his claim here. The Safir's rudder function is, simply put, wrong.
Me too. I can't believe I've not noticed it before. :( I'd go further and say 'very wrong'. Did a real Safir pilot sign this off as OK?
If they did and a real life Safir behaves like this then don't hide your head in the sand Andrey, come out and say so. Don't let this escalate like the BirdDog thing.

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 18 May 2011, 23:47
by jeanco
Hello Dieter, now that I read your post about the evidently unrealistic rudder handling, I'm starting to understand my own problems with cross wind landings better ("difficult handling on final") which I posted a week ago in the "general discussion" forum. The rudder handling is simply very wrong. I must ask Sibwings to fix this and get us an update very soon, cause this is not suitable for an otherwise fine aircraft.

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 25 May 2011, 20:49
by Dieter
Hello jeanco,

I agree a 100%, but I'm afraid you'll will get no solution/answer here.
To me it seems that the Safir and the Birddog aren't on the SibWing's maintanance list anymore.

Dieter

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 14 Nov 2011, 13:06
by Dieter
This is just to inform you that the SibWings SAAB 91 SAFIR X got an update concerning the wrong rudder effectiveness: :)
Download here:
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/s ... -there-one

(Scroll down)
Interesting to read the complete thread.

Dieter

Re: Rudder effectiveness

Posted: 09 Oct 2013, 01:54
by Yossarian1943
The update seems not to be available at sim-outhouse anymore. Is this file uploaded somewhere else in this forum?

regards